[starlogo-users] Bit stunned there is so little traffic on this list!

[Eric Klopfer]

I guess the language is so self-explanatory that we don't need discussion ;-)

The list goes through peaks and valleys.  It has been about a year 
since our last update of
StarLogo, so traffic is low.  We hope that this changes in the near 
future.  Within the next month
or two we will be releasing a "preview" version of an entirely new 
StarLogo - rewritten from the
ground up with new ideas in mind.  Our goal here is to lower the 
barrier to entry even more for
programming, and make it more accessible (and rewarding) to students 
and teachers.  We'll be
releasing more details soon.

There is often a tradeoff between the generality of the language with 
the ease of entry.  Right now
it seems that there are plenty of languages that one can bury down 
pretty far in, but way too few
that make it easy for kids to start.  One of the features that we plan 
for this version is
"sandboxing" different versions of the language with subsets of 
commands.  This idea is part of
"dr. scheme", a version of scheme designed to introduce students to 
programming.

I think the language you describe here would be really interesting, 
though serving a slightly
different market than we typically associate with StarLogo.  You might 
want to take a look at the
way Dr. Scheme is designed as well.

Thanks for keeping the list active.  And I'm glad that you're having 
such success.

Eric Klopfer

Quoting Chuck Flink <Chuck_Flink at hotmail.com>:

> Hello!
>
> I've used StarLOGO to teach rudimentary programming to a dozen 
> middle-school kids.  I was an after-school volunteer; they enjoyed it 
> and so did I!  I think there is much promise in StarLOGO, but much 
> more can be done.... But:
>
> I'm rather stunned that I see virtually no traffic on this list.  
> What am I missing?
>
>> From a "retired computer scientist" point of view, my major gripe is 
>> the primitive nature of LOGO, leaving me little "growth path" for 
>> the kids once they master the basics and start exploring.  Of 
>> course, that view may be colored by too many years programming in 
>> real-world languages, or an imagination that be growing a bit old 
>> and tired.
>
> Here is what I'd like to see:
>
> - the implementation of the commands/objects should be "expose-able" 
> allowing drill down into the implementation;
> - this should be done so that the language becomes readily extensible 
> by the students, adding features, options, etc.;
> - the "real" programming language exposed would provide a growth 
> path, allowing the students to evolve cleanly into real-world 
> programming after learning the concepts playing with StarLOGO.
>
> This extensibility and open-source would enable an evolution of 
> StarLOGO over time with volunteer programmers.
>
> Strategy:
>
> I'd like to undertake rewriting StarLOGO in C#, a richer and better 
> designed extensible language that shares the "run in a browser 
> sandbox" advantages of Java.  The objects and commands in StarLOGO 
> would be implemented as C# objects and methods with a veneer that 
> allows it to provide the basic look and feel of StarLOGO as it exists 
> today, but supporting the ability of users to "drill down" and see 
> the underpinning in C# as well as providing extensions and 
> enhancements in C#.
>
> The source should be fully available and self-documenting taking 
> advantage of C#'s features in that regard.  I'd lean heavily upon the 
> MONO implementation of C# to allow maximum Java/C# interplay during 
> development.  Further, all of MONO is GNU licensed with the source 
> readily available.  
> http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page<http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page>
>
> Am I crazy?  ...or is there someone out there interested in 
> revitalizing / remodeling StarLOGO this way?
>
> Or is something like what I want already developed in another 
> teaching IDE?  If so, please suggest.
>
> - Chuck Flink  Chuck_Flink at hotmail.com<mailto:Chuck_Flink at hotmail.com>
> ---------